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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:50 pm 
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Location: Canada
French Champagne, Cognac, and the like - make all you want , just dont call it that. Right.

Novax has a copyright on the name F*nfr*t .. no prob (Fender has Strat and Gibson Les Paul right, its just a guitar ???), I called mine a multiscale. Laskin has a copyright on the Laskin Armrest and Ribrest - I use those names with permission. He has no patent, and has no aim to seek one, at least as of a couple years back when I talked to him about it. He also has no concerns with people building guitars with these features.

Paul - good jig - mine is a table that rides in the mitre slots, and has a clamp down to hold the FB, and a pseudo hairline - in the end, same result !!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:20 am 
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Cocobolo
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Thanks,

That is a pretty sweet looking jig and fingerboard!

I was thinking about just doing it by hand but was concerned about achieving a uniform and level depth.

I had no idea what a can of worm this would open up


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:46 am 
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Koa
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First name: Bob
Last Name: Johnson
City: Denver
State: CO.
Zip/Postal Code: 80224
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Scooter, where did you find the 'tutorial'.
Bob


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:58 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:20 pm
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Location: United States
[QUOTE=Michael Shaw] I also like to add that thing's like fanned frets and buzz feiten system more or less are novelties. You will never be able to build a perfect tempered tuned fretting system . You can get close but not perfect. The close's way I have seen is individual small frets for each string and note. This broken fret method just makes it more dificult to fret chords and bend strings. I think it not being perfect is what adds to the charm and characteristics of the guitar. If you want perfect tuning build yourself a piano.[/QUOTE]

I admit it's been a while since I've read the Novak patent - do either patents claim better intonation?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:16 am 
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I dont see how the intonation could be any better - you are usingthe same amthematical formula to find the fret spacings, so how could it ?? WHat is does do is allow you to choose scales that may better suit the string gauge and tuning you are planning to utilize ont eh guitar - for instance, a 56 at 26.25 in low C will intonate better than a 52 in C on a std 25.4. The closer the string is to its breaking tension, the better it will intonate and act as string theory says it should.
One of my students likes to play Hedges 2nd Law, its std tuning except the low E is dropped to an octave below the 5th string A - so the same A as on a bass guitar. With light strings and 25.4 scale, when you go to hit the 8th or 10th fret - the string goes wonky as to the note you are trying to get. It works better on a longer scale heavier gauge, I think Hedges used a 70 or 75 when he recorded that tune.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:38 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:35 pm
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[QUOTE=John B] [QUOTE=Michael Shaw] I also like to add that thing's like fanned frets and buzz feiten system more or less are novelties. You will never be able to build a perfect tempered tuned fretting system . You can get close but not perfect. The close's way I have seen is individual small frets for each string and note. This broken fret method just makes it more dificult to fret chords and bend strings. I think it not being perfect is what adds to the charm and characteristics of the guitar. If you want perfect tuning build yourself a piano.[/QUOTE]

I admit it's been a while since I've read the Novak patent - do either patents claim better intonation?[/QUOTE]
I not sure about the fanned fret but the Buzz feiten does. Thats their selling point. That it improves tuning and proper intonation. Read there ad's.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:09 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:04 am
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I play an Earnest 5-string electric mandolin with the Novax system, and love
it...

"Normal" five or ten-string mandolins don't seem to cut it on one string or
another, and this system seems to work fine to present all the strings in a
suitable scale length....

Love to see an acoustic 10-string with a Novax 'board....

spruce38906.6740162037


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:19 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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My understanding of the Novax system was that it was devised to address a specific issue: the difference in sound of Strats and Les Pauls. He claims that if you made a Strat with a shorter scale it would sound more like a Less Paul because of the way the string length and tuning interact. By fanning the frets you can approach the Strat sound on the bass and the Les Paul sound on the treble.

In particular, Ralph's idea was that there would be a high frequency longitudinal wave set up in the vibrating string, rather like the vibration of air in a long, narrow pipe. The frequency of this vibration would be determined by the length and material of the string, and have nothing to do with the tension, the pitch it was tuned to, or the gauge of the string, but would be capable of interacting with the normal transverse vibrations. If this high frequency vibration somehow 'clashed' or 'worked with' the note the string was tuned to, it would alter the timbre.

There's something to this. I looked at the 'tension' and 'transverse' forces the string puts on the end supports, and did indeed see this high frequency signal, somwhere up in the 3-5 kHz range. As far as I could tell, it does seem to interact with the other vibratinos of the string to some extent, although just what effect this might have on timbre is hard to say. So far, so good for Ralph.

The old citterns used variable string lengths to address a different problem; they weren't using overspun strings, or, at least, not very good ones, and metal strings tend to have a more narrow tuning range than gut. In order to get the low notes to sound good the strings had to be made long. Short, slack strings suffer from a lot of 'anharmonicity': the pitches of the overtones are not harmonic, for various reasons. They also change pitch more when they are displaced: it's easier to 'bend' a short scale than a long one.

I've always heard that part of any patent is the purpose: if you can find a totally novel and un-obvious use for some old technology you can patent that use. If this is true, Ralph's patent may be valid, since he's addressing a different problem than the prior art.

OTOH, these days I think you could patent gravity. It got to be too much trouble and expense to actually examine patents some years ago, so the government gave up on all but the most cursory glance, if that. They just grant the patent, and allow interested parties to duke it out in court. As with so much else, the strength of your position is directly proportional to the number of lawyers you can hire. Most luthiers can't hire lawyers, unless they can finsd ones that are interested in barter....


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:08 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:40 am
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Location: United States
[QUOTE=Alan Carruth] As with so much else, the strength of your position is directly proportional to the number of lawyers you can hire. [/QUOTE]

That is so true. I acquired my first (and best) deep vacuum diffusion pump/chamber set up when a small company developed a process impregnating and stabilizing opal and turquoise. Unfortunately a New York Company claimed patent infringement punctuated with a 50 million law suit. Right or wrong the little guy had no chance playing in that tall grass and quit.

Lawsuits filed merely "on principal" are for thos who have money and time to burn. It's business.Larry Davis38906.8401157407


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:49 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
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[QUOTE=Michael Shaw] The french have done this with certain famous french products like Champaign and Conac and some traditional french foods. They claim no one should be able to use these names for their version of the products. They state Champaign,conac and certain french cheese's are made in a regions these product are named for so no one has a right to use these names. If you want to make these products you have to use a alternative name. They state chaimpaign and conac made out of france are just sparkling wine and brandy. Some other countries followed suit and have claimed the same for regional items. Whats next I'll have to pay a royalty to eat my French toast for breakfast.[/QUOTE]

True, but honestly? This makes perfect sense to me. Traditional products should be able to use the reputation of the protected area where they are produced to their own advantage; Champange comes from Champagne, after all, and that's that. Sparkling wines made outside of that particular area of France have different names.

These names and traditions are, essentially, trademarks from the days before trademarks existed. Nothing wrong with them. Nobody's stopping people from producing champagne-process sparkling wines (say, Cava from Spain, Prosecco from the city/area of - guess what - Prosecco in Italy), but they are stopping them from turning a specific name, an entire culture, tradition, and skills into a meaningless, uncontrolled selling point for anyone who feels like it to use. It's not just the French; many European areas are trying to protect their most valuable culinary assets, and the reputation that goes with them (knock-off Danish mozarella? I mean...seriously. LOUSY).

I'm all for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:33 pm 
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Cocobolo
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[QUOTE=bob J] Scooter, where did you find the 'tutorial'.
Bob[/QUOTE]

Bob I'm at work and have not checked in the forum for a couple days but I will look it up when I get home tonight and get back to you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:26 am 
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Cocobolo
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[QUOTE=bob J] Scooter, where did you find the 'tutorial'.
Bob[/QUOTE]

Here you go Bob
http://www.doolinguitars.com/articles/novax/


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:49 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:17 am
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Location: Evanston, IL
First name: Steve
Last Name: Courtright
Focus: Build
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First post and bringing bad news I am afraid. I feel like I can clear up some of the comments here in this thread so here goes.

First, the Novak patent expires June 30, 2008, not in August of this year. I would hate to see someone get in trouble for making FF guitars in August.

The patent law states that for patents in force on or after June 8, 1995 the patent term is the greater of 17 years from the grant date (August 1, 1989) or 20 years from the filing date (June 30, 1988) which ever is longer.

Second, technically, (and assuming, right or wrong, that the patent is valid) the patent holder has the right to stop others from "making, using or selling" the invention claimed in the patent. So personal use technically is infringement of the patent holders rights.

I do not know the whole history of this issue but only have heard various mutterings. I did want people to have some facts which I can confirm.

BTW, I have been lurking a while here and want to say how much I enjoy the show of camaraderie amongst so many talented folks. Cheers - Steve Courtright

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:15 am 
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[QUOTE=TonyKarol] .. you want something that plays perfectly in tune - get a violin.[/QUOTE]

Oh man....I'm totally shocked that Al Carruth didn't jump all over that one!
It's all a big Can O' Worms if you ask me...Don Williams38911.678587963

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:14 pm 
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Cocobolo
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FWIW since I am not doing a five string I'm not tackling this one yet but I may at a later date do it on a 5 string solid body.


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